Talk:Haifan Civil War

On Jezeraah

To Orion: Will Jezeraah‎‎ be allied with the Greater Morovian Independence Initiative, or will it fight on its own? I'm a little unclear on its position in this conflict, as you appear to indicate that it supports more than one side. Note that the Keltian League, which is conducting the blockade, represents the Bassarids. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Newzimiagov (talk • contribs)

Reply: They are allied with the GMIN. The Keltian League statement was an oversight on my part and was removed. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Orion (talk • contribs)

On Hoenn

This is an internal Bassarid conflict. Hoenn is not invited to play, and any efforts to involve it will be removed. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Newzimiagov (talk • contribs)

If you don't want Hoenn to get involved, then refrain from attempting to blockade Niijima, and stop interfering in the narrative of the Humanitarian Mission in former Caputia where its activity does not concern Haifa. Hālian (talk) 11:01, 25 February 2019 (UTC)

I am going to keep the blockade in place and I will continue to interfere exclusively in Hoenn's ability to participate in the mission. I support the Humanitarian Mission, just not your involvement in it. And you will not play a role in this conflict. Thanks and good luck. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Newzimiagov (talk • contribs)

You cannot and will not autocratically dictate what I or any other player will, will not, may, or may not do with their own game pieces. This is called godmoding and crosses a blindingly bright red line in every RP community ever, including this one. Same with dictating what happens to Hoennese assets for me, which is called autohitting and crosses an equally bright equally red line in every RP community ever. Weigh this against the dream of your profits. Hālian (talk) 14:06, 25 February 2019 (UTC)

For context. --Continuator (talk) 13:57, 25 February 2019 (UTC)

How Bijaro thinks this will end: after intensifying and doubling down on his valiant display of narrative hardball, he will eventually convince his neighbours in the post-Caputian space to let the light of reason into their hearts. They will back down unconditionally and accept his direct and exclusive control of the regional narrative, even where it directly concerns their own nations while denying them a right of reply.

How this will actually end if things carry on as they are: his neighbours, being independent agents who operate as something more than shadows of the narcissistic reasoning of one man, and tending toward a negotiated blending of their own interests into enough of a community consensus to sustain a coherent narrative, will deem his repeated demonstrations of bad faith and narrative unilaterialism to be incompatible with their enjoyment of the hobby and beyond redemption by reason, thenceforth progressively demoting him and his creations to the status of narratively-quarantined laughing stock and community pariah as has already happened with Harald and Stormark.

Given how deep the hole is getting, now is probably a good time to stop digging. Yastreb (talk) 15:40, 25 February 2019 (UTC)

You'll note that there is an IC justification for the lack of Hoennese involvement in the conflict. The GMI simply didn't want their help/didn't believe they could offer support. Also, no proof of Kalgachian/Nova English support for blockade runners =/= no blockade runners. Team Green Sea, which you'll find on the WKTA page, captured and ransomed a decent number of blockade runners.— Preceding unsigned comment added by Newzimiagov (talk • contribs)

I limited the Jolly Froyalaner's shenanigans to a rumour because I already recognise the limits of my narrative stake in the matter. Your added wibble about "independent verification" (whatever that means) is redundant, and only serves to exhibit your petulant insecurity. By blockading Hoenn you not only exclude it from 'your' Haifan War, you interfere with its relation to the rest of the world including the bits that aren't yours. By definition this gives people who aren't you a legitimate interest in the blockade. Yastreb (talk) 05:03, 4 March 2019 (UTC)

Also it cannot have escaped notice that (IC) Hoenn only sought to add itself onto the list of combatants after discovering, to its amusement, that one of the other combatants was attempting to blockade it over objections to its participation in the HMFC, far removed to the west from the civil war in Haifa. That makes it an interested party even if an inferred approach to the GMI was rebuffed (OOC: Hoenn chose the middle column as the remainder contained Bassarids and Alperkin as the only alternatives). As long as the blockade remains a thing Hoenn, and those who object to the attempts to blockade Hoenn, will remain parties to the narrative even if they have no earthly interest in the actual portion of the conflict occurring in Haifa. --Continuator (talk) 07:39, 4 March 2019 (UTC)

I would have added a fourth column if I could. Hālian (talk) 20:25, 4 March 2019 (UTC)

To Yastreb: I interfere with its relation to the rest of the world? You don't say. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Newzimiagov (talk • contribs)

🤔 Hālian (talk) 20:25, 4 March 2019 (UTC)

Before I interfered in your international relations you interfered in mine. Youre not too stupid to see this. Youre too petty and dishonest. This would not be an issue had you refrained from being a dick. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Newzimiagov (talk • contribs)

On an OOC level I don't object to the interference per se - I object to the idea that nobody except you has the right to contribute to it as an event, or that the narrative can be credible in such circumstances. Even Admiral Jervis didn't have that kind of impunity.--Yastreb (talk) 17:06, 25 February 2019 (UTC)

I disagree with your assessment. Orion has been able to interfere with minimal input from me. I even supported his Jezeraah claim in my own territory, even though he didn't communicate with me about it. The idea that "nobody" except for me has the right to contribute is demonstrably false. I have even thrown Halian a bone with Team Green Sea, and he hasn't capitalized on it. He is evidently content to have the two of you complain on his behalf. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Newzimiagov (talk • contribs)

I was out of town over the weekend, and as such have yet to notice the Team Green Sea thing. Regardless, I don't appreciate being dragged via godmode into this conflict, and especially loathe not only being autohit but also cockblocked from playing my own fucking nation. Retcon Hoenn out of this conflict entirely, blockade included, or a world war will result, and your odds of winning one don't look great. (Unrelatedly, if any of y'all are ever in my neck of the woods, we should hang out sometime.) Hālian (talk) 20:19, 4 March 2019 (UTC)

You know what I don't appreciate? Being banned from community forums by pathetic assholes who are too shy/afraid to talk out issues, who delight in talking shit about people without allowing them the chance to defend themselves, and who notably take extreme exception to issues which at the end of the day have nothing to do with them. Go ahead and talk shit about this reply - "Sweet Bassarid tears" and all that nonsense. I know you will, because I saw the hatred you were all spewing on the Caputia server. But do consider one question, who started this in the first place? Who blockaded whom? Would this conflict exist had you not chosen to be a pathetic, petty asshole? It seems to me that you made yourself my enemy. Not the other way around. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Newzimiagov (talk • contribs)

To Continuator: Yep, I saw your venn diagram. Thanks for taking the time to do that. It is very impressive work.— Preceding unsigned comment added by Newzimiagov (talk • contribs)

Simple bottom line: if you dont want others to mess with your story, then don't mess with theirs. This includes you claiming the entirety of former Caputia as your backyard. It simply isn't. You control your lands on the MCS map, the green is free for all to write about. Jack (talk) 20:37, 4 March 2019 (UTC)

Hi, Jack. You're making stuff up because you revel in indignation. I never claimed the entirety of former Caputia. Kindly butt out, or at the very least, focus on things that are actually happening.— Preceding unsigned comment added by Newzimiagov (talk • contribs)

Bijaro: nothing you say here, no technical or contextual aspect of the Haifan Civil War narrative, entitles you to claim a maritime blockade of someone else's turf while denying them or anyone else a say in the matter. In terms of creative authority, Hoenn's involvement in former Caputia and Hoenn's involvement in its own damn waters are two different things, and you're not fooling anybody by trying to conflate them. Nor is it a proportional response to Hālian's activity - he's never tried to disallow you anything so rudimentary as a presence in your own waters, as much as you might perceive that he has. Your mention of the latitude you've given Orion in Jezeerah only emphasises the personal grudge and double standard that's behind all this. Frankly I couldn't care less about what goes on in Haifa (truth be told, I always struggled to be enthusiastic about Caputia or Hamland) and you can do what you like there, but your claim of full ownership of the Hoenn blockade narrative is demonstrably idiotic.--Yastreb (talk) 05:06, 5 March 2019 (UTC)