Changes

View and discuss existing rules, new rules, policies, and regulations of the MCS.
Nathan of Natopia
Posts: 390
Joined: Sun Mar 26, 2006 2:14 pm
Location: Lindstrom City, Natopia
Contact:

Changes

Post by Nathan of Natopia »

Now that the MCS has a rival mapping project we need to reorganize it... the Loyalty Charter is a good idea to start but we need broad reforms to attract new nations to the MCS rather than the GSO.

We do have several advantages to the GSO that i am aware of (GSO lurkers please feel free to correct me):

1. All GSO nations must exist in the same general time frame... basically the early 20th century.

2. GSO nations do not determine their own borders or positions. The GSO Board and the member decide where that nation should be and how it should look.


We need to make some changes, as people have pointed out. Obviously, these are all ideas I like:

1. Revise rules for being on two maps and reconcile the existance of the other map. Are they two planets? Or... what?

2. Ease up the activity guidelines. If a nation is active, yeah they should expand. Should they shrink? I still say no... but we'll all decide this.

3. Open up the moon for colonisation!

4. Diversify the MCS admin team... I like tinkering around with the maps, I sometimes even update my own copy of the world map at home by myself. I've even erased all the members that resigned already... hah 8)

5. Reduce/change the 3 month rule. Allow new nations a small plot and let them grow if they grow. If they dont grow... the members can all vote to remove them from the map... majority rules.

6. All policy changes must be approved by a majority of members.
HSM Nathan, SBH, GCY, KGCO, KCE, KG, KS, GOLH, NM, SOB
Sovereign Natopian Emperor,
Duke of Ziegeland,
Lord Protector of Flaventia,
Duke of Dekinai City,
Earl of Lindstrom,
Marquis of Lukanburg
User avatar
johndarcy
Posts: 28
Joined: Wed Apr 19, 2006 12:50 am

Re: Changes

Post by johndarcy »

Allow me to say, once again, that I have no hardline position against the continuation of the MCS or the right of people to choose.
Nathan of Natopia wrote:1. All GSO nations must exist in the same general time frame... basically the early 20th century.
There's a little more depth to it than that. Some of our members want to have detailed transport and trade between nations, and others want to have the odd war or two. We can't have one side in possession of nukes and surveillance satellites, so we ask all members to moderate their technological era not to be the same as everyone else, but so as not to create incongruities and clashes.
Nathan of Natopia wrote:2. GSO nations do not determine their own borders or positions. The GSO Board and the member decide where that nation should be and how it should look.
This one is more false than true. New members are asked for their climate and environment preferences. The Board identifies suitable locations and offfers the new member a choice. Once on the map, a new member must work inside the sim to determine its borders, by securing their land and achieving treaty-based territorial recognition from their established neighbours. Except to guard against breaches of the rules, the Board takes no role in that process. This is an activity-generating process, and gets the new nation fully involved in the GSO world right away - those that can't cut it will fade away quickly.
5. Reduce/change the 3 month rule. Allow new nations a small plot and let them grow if they grow. If they dont grow... the members can all vote to remove them from the map... majority rules.
Similar to our method of placing a new nation, except that we don't remove them from the map in quite the same way. A member might be expelled if it is acting right outside the contracted requirements, but a nation which dies or resigns will leave its cities, roads, mines and power stations behind ... for the vultures.
Vehendi
Posts: 555
Joined: Sun Mar 26, 2006 8:15 am

Post by Vehendi »

1, 2, 5, 6 is being done. Vote on it in the Notices subforum.

1,2, 3 will be debated in this forum.

4, is that an application?
Lachlan
Posts: 10
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2006 3:00 am

Post by Lachlan »

Congratulations to the MCS for finally listening to its members. I'm sure it will be for the benefit of all its members!
Last edited by Lachlan on Sat Aug 19, 2006 4:39 am, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
dr-spangle
MCS Technical Advisor
Posts: 3998
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2006 12:52 pm
Location: new-empire
Contact:

Post by dr-spangle »

1. Revise rules for being on two maps and reconcile the existance of the other map. Are they two planets? Or... what?
maybe simply two planets in the same star system?
2. Ease up the activity guidelines. If a nation is active, yeah they should expand. Should they shrink? I still say no... but we'll all decide this.
it should depend on their average posts per day or number of citizens on their forum, whichever is lowest
3. Open up the moon for colonisation!
not full colinisation, maybe landings...
4. Diversify the MCS admin team... I like tinkering around with the maps, I sometimes even update my own copy of the world map at home by myself. I've even erased all the members that resigned already... hah Cool
can i help??? please... any little job...
5. Reduce/change the 3 month rule. Allow new nations a small plot and let them grow if they grow. If they dont grow... the members can all vote to remove them from the map... majority rules.
maybe one and a half months, it shouldn't be destroyed because it does quite well at keeping dead nations out...
6. All policy changes must be approved by a majority of members.
or simply a majority of those that come on the forum, a lot of members don't ever come here...
Image
User avatar
johndarcy
Posts: 28
Joined: Wed Apr 19, 2006 12:50 am

Post by johndarcy »

dr-spangle wrote:
1. Revise rules for being on two maps and reconcile the existance of the other map. Are they two planets? Or... what?
maybe simply two planets in the same star system?
I'm sure that has been discussed before. I know that I brought it up in the context of making Micras one half of a binary system with a near-twin as the other component, further away than the Moon (ie, Tarsica), and with no Tarsica in the system.

Alternately, two planets might be able to form independently in the same orbit if one was at a Langrangian Point of the other, one of L3, L4 or L5. Problem with that is that there is no long-term stability at L4 or L5, and in due course the two planets would collide (this is the preferred theory for the formation of the Moon). And with both planets having no large sattelite, they lose the stability of axial inclination and the tidal forces which have made Earth such a nice place for life. Of course, you could extend the hypothesis even further - two large bodies form at 60 degrees separation and then each one gets impacted by a smaller L-point partner, so each one gets a Moon ... this would put it up into the realms of the very very improbable, even when you consider that our solar system has two examples of impactor-created-large-satellite formation (Earth-Moon, and Pluto-Charon).

So, to summarise the above, the two possible ways for Micras and Giess to co-exist in the same solar system are:

1. They are a twin-planet system, separated by about 3.5 million km, orbiting their common centre of gravity in about 85 days. This makes a long "month" (calendars would have to be explained differently) and a brighter nightlight (about 25% brighter when full), but preserves total tidal force and the daily rotation of each.

2. They are in the same solar orbit, separated by about 60 degrees, with each one having a large companion moon. This enables each one to be a true near-twin of the Earth-Moon system, and we need not worry about orbital instability in our lifetimes.

I am only offering ideas here, and the MCS may deal with it as they see fit. If you would like to be a two-planet system in either of those configurations, let us know and the GSO will discuss it.
User avatar
dr-spangle
MCS Technical Advisor
Posts: 3998
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2006 12:52 pm
Location: new-empire
Contact:

Post by dr-spangle »

or you could use the much simpler and more fictional approch of two different , but still close star systems, maybe about 4 light years, then you have several methods of interaction, pretending there is some wormhole type thing , or using some useful 1945 science that would allow you to reach the other star system in 40 days...
Image
User avatar
johndarcy
Posts: 28
Joined: Wed Apr 19, 2006 12:50 am

Post by johndarcy »

dr-spangle wrote:or you could use the much simpler and more fictional approch of two different , but still close star systems, maybe about 4 light years, then you have several methods of interaction, pretending there is some wormhole type thing , or using some useful 1945 science that would allow you to reach the other star system in 40 days...
Ah, but that makes a different problem - it takes 4 years to communicate between the two worlds. At least if they are separated by 150 million km, it's only an 8 minute delay.
User avatar
dr-spangle
MCS Technical Advisor
Posts: 3998
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2006 12:52 pm
Location: new-empire
Contact:

Post by dr-spangle »

ah yes, good point, although the signal would be a bit fuzzy, unless you send in digital, or use lasers rather than radio...
Image
Graius
Posts: 32
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2006 3:33 am

Post by Graius »

That's the thing about 1945 science, most of it has been discredited or developed significantly. And numerous tech levels are allowed on the planet, with the rule in place simply to ensure that nations behave towards each other in a responsible and measured manner, rather than declaring to have millions of nukes. As an example, Treithar has a tech level of 2020.
chrimigules
Posts: 52
Joined: Thu May 18, 2006 5:17 pm
Location: The Republic of Antica
Contact:

Post by chrimigules »

Well, the Lagrange Points are for objects of insignificant mass in proportion to the main bodies.

If there were two planets in a system, they'd have to be in different orbits or locked in a double-planet. But that's not bad, actually. Scientists are thinking that if Mars were larger and had tectonic movement (which it doesn't, because the crust is too thick in comparison to the size of the planet), it could still be inhabitable.
User avatar
dr-spangle
MCS Technical Advisor
Posts: 3998
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2006 12:52 pm
Location: new-empire
Contact:

Post by dr-spangle »

and if it had oxygen, less carbon dioxide and more water maybe
Image
Vehendi
Posts: 555
Joined: Sun Mar 26, 2006 8:15 am

Post by Vehendi »

Thank you Lachlan.

I quite like idea number 1 and would like to talk about it with the GSO staff.
Nathan of Natopia
Posts: 390
Joined: Sun Mar 26, 2006 2:14 pm
Location: Lindstrom City, Natopia
Contact:

Post by Nathan of Natopia »

it was an application... id love to help out with the maps.
HSM Nathan, SBH, GCY, KGCO, KCE, KG, KS, GOLH, NM, SOB
Sovereign Natopian Emperor,
Duke of Ziegeland,
Lord Protector of Flaventia,
Duke of Dekinai City,
Earl of Lindstrom,
Marquis of Lukanburg
chrimigules
Posts: 52
Joined: Thu May 18, 2006 5:17 pm
Location: The Republic of Antica
Contact:

Post by chrimigules »

No... just plate tectonics. Plate tectonics would release chemicals like CO2 and Water, building up the atmosphere and oceans. The CO2 can then be used by plants to create oxygen either by natural evolution or by colonization.
Nathan of Natopia
Posts: 390
Joined: Sun Mar 26, 2006 2:14 pm
Location: Lindstrom City, Natopia
Contact:

Post by Nathan of Natopia »

plate tectonics roxors my soxors
HSM Nathan, SBH, GCY, KGCO, KCE, KG, KS, GOLH, NM, SOB
Sovereign Natopian Emperor,
Duke of Ziegeland,
Lord Protector of Flaventia,
Duke of Dekinai City,
Earl of Lindstrom,
Marquis of Lukanburg
User avatar
dr-spangle
MCS Technical Advisor
Posts: 3998
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2006 12:52 pm
Location: new-empire
Contact:

Post by dr-spangle »

maybe you could try and figure out the plate boundarys of this planet, it tried before.. but everoyne moaned... it's in the archives..
Image
Nathan of Natopia
Posts: 390
Joined: Sun Mar 26, 2006 2:14 pm
Location: Lindstrom City, Natopia
Contact:

Post by Nathan of Natopia »

i remember that! pangea-Micras. cool stuff, that. go for it i say... i dunno what we'd use it for though :?
HSM Nathan, SBH, GCY, KGCO, KCE, KG, KS, GOLH, NM, SOB
Sovereign Natopian Emperor,
Duke of Ziegeland,
Lord Protector of Flaventia,
Duke of Dekinai City,
Earl of Lindstrom,
Marquis of Lukanburg
User avatar
dr-spangle
MCS Technical Advisor
Posts: 3998
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2006 12:52 pm
Location: new-empire
Contact:

Post by dr-spangle »

Image
User avatar
johndarcy
Posts: 28
Joined: Wed Apr 19, 2006 12:50 am

Post by johndarcy »

I remember that discussion. As I said at the time (and I have just looked back to verify what I said), if you drag continents backwards to their prior positions then you have to "undo" the geological events that have occurred during that time before you find how they looked when joined.

For example - until India reached its collision with Asia, there was no Himalayas and no Tibetan plateau.

Note also that continents need not drift neatly across the rectangle. The world is round, and drift may have taken land up and over the poles as well. Consider the distorting effect of the rectnagular projection on the shapes of the northern and southern continents, and think about what that continent would look like if closer to the equator.

I am not scorning the idea, and even though I am no longer part of the MCS, I would still be happier seeing you do things well rather than just doing them.
Image
User avatar
dr-spangle
MCS Technical Advisor
Posts: 3998
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2006 12:52 pm
Location: new-empire
Contact:

Post by dr-spangle »

(that was from a time when i simply ignored the whole smaller at poles idea :D, which of corse is more than an idea, it's a fact, a fact that some choose to ignore, like evolution..)
Image
Zatriarch Maximillideus
Special Cartographer
Posts: 974
Joined: Sun Mar 26, 2006 3:29 pm
Location: Cathedral of St Tavalouris, Matbaa
Contact:

Post by Zatriarch Maximillideus »

I'm not too sure about having plate tectonics on Micras. Sure, it'd be realistic, but then again people would have to simulate the destruction of their own nation, which nobody likes doing. There would also have to be some tool for measuring where collisions occur. If such a map was made before MCS nations started claiming on Micras, there'd be no argument, but if we were to draw it now we'd certainly anger one of the member nations, if not more.
To do with expansions, surely we should try to implement cultural advancement expansions for nations, like the GSO does. I appreciate that activity is really the only quantifiable way to justify claims, but culture and influence should be taken into account too. As John rightly pointed out, nations to the bottom of the map would in reality be smaller and vice versa. I think this seriously does need to be taken into account when members want to expand or claim. I'm not sure about the mathematics of the situation, and doubtless John or Spangle know better than I do, but surely the New-Empire's actual land on a globe would be about a third smaller than what it appears on the Micras map.
As the leader of an MCS member nation, I'd like to see the society implement:
-Greater interaction with the GSO and the promotion of relations between member states in both worlds (i.e let's be friends, not rivals)
-Less Focus on Forum Activity
-Aiding nations to create detailed maps to scale
But I think Vehendi is already doing excellent work on re-making the society, and I congratulate him for that.
Regards,
The MCS's new special maps cartographer and religious leader
Image
By the heavenly grace of God, our lord Jesus Christ, mother of God Meryem Ana Mary, the twelve apostles and the saints assembled in eternal glory, His All Holiness Zatriarch Mar Maximillideus Shedounah Idhwharioun I, 103rd Zatriarch of the Holy Orthodox See of the Zatriarchate of Matbaa, prelate of the Matbaic Orthodox Assyrian Jacobite Church of Micras and leader of the faithful of the true micronational faith.
Yes, I am a theocrat. How very perceptive. You got a problem with that? If not, visit the Zatriarchate of Matbaa at www.zatriarchate.uni.cc
User avatar
dr-spangle
MCS Technical Advisor
Posts: 3998
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2006 12:52 pm
Location: new-empire
Contact:

Post by dr-spangle »

i agree qwith your 3 listed points at the bottom but you suggested
surely we should try to implement cultural advancement expansions for nations, like the GSO does.
recently we've had a lot of GSO members complaining that we copy them, maybe there is another system we could use...
Image
User avatar
Babs
Posts: 1049
Joined: Sat May 06, 2006 7:18 am
Location: Deep Underground
Contact:

Post by Babs »

Zatriarch Maximillideus wrote:I'm not too sure about having plate tectonics on Micras. Sure, it'd be realistic, but then again people would have to simulate the destruction of their own nation, which nobody likes doing. There would also have to be some tool for measuring where collisions occur. If such a map was made before MCS nations started claiming on Micras, there'd be no argument, but if we were to draw it now we'd certainly anger one of the member nations, if not more.
To do with expansions, surely we should try to implement cultural advancement expansions for nations, like the GSO does. I appreciate that activity is really the only quantifiable way to justify claims, but culture and influence should be taken into account too. As John rightly pointed out, nations to the bottom of the map would in reality be smaller and vice versa. I think this seriously does need to be taken into account when members want to expand or claim. I'm not sure about the mathematics of the situation, and doubtless John or Spangle know better than I do, but surely the New-Empire's actual land on a globe would be about a third smaller than what it appears on the Micras map.
As the leader of an MCS member nation, I'd like to see the society implement:
-Greater interaction with the GSO and the promotion of relations between member states in both worlds (i.e let's be friends, not rivals)
-Less Focus on Forum Activity
-Aiding nations to create detailed maps to scale
But I think Vehendi is already doing excellent work on re-making the society, and I congratulate him for that.
Regards,
Perhaps we could have a sort of random generator?
ie: put the names of every micra in a hat, and lots of different costs of damages in another, then just do a draw every now and then, say, if your stupid enough to claim on a fault line, then we are not responsible if if your entire nation is swallowed up by the earth.
High Prince Babs, Beaugium
KCMNOP, - Kingdom of Lovely
MMNOP, - Kingdom of Lovely
MNOP, - Kingdom of Lovely
SOB, - Grand Principality of Beaugium
POOG, - Grand Principality of Beaugium
HCrC, - Kingdom of Craiteland
H-DOB, - Grand Principality of Beaugium
E-DOB, - Grand Principality of Beaugium
Whitesnake Award, - Kingdom of Durntkinstan
DOB, - Grand Principality of Beaugium
Pete wrote:I have a face
Pete wrote:because you've just had a lard expansion
Guido Zambelis wrote:No, I'm gay.
Andreas the Wise wrote: So we have a 30% share in giant swordfish ... could work ...
User avatar
dr-spangle
MCS Technical Advisor
Posts: 3998
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2006 12:52 pm
Location: new-empire
Contact:

Post by dr-spangle »

that was ryans idea, and i'm working on a programme to do just that, but until i can make a detailed map of the faults then i can't do much...
Image
Locked