Discussion: Quantifying the Resource Map

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Emperador Augustin

Discussion: Quantifying the Resource Map

Post by Emperador Augustin »

This is an idea which I have been wanting to propose for some time now. If we look at most standard instructional atlases, some will include a general resource map. Most of the time, these accompany a topographical map of a particular country's entry in the book.<br>
<br>
Now, the resource maps present in these books differs greatly from the resource map we presently use. And while our current resource map is pleasent for the eyes, it leaves a lot of questions unanswered and generally lacks the professionalism the rest of the maps carry.<br>
<br>
One of the main problems with this is that the resource map does not give us any idea as to the size of a particular resource or deposit. Is there a lot of uranium in location x or not? The resource map simply covers the "general" idea of resources, while most of the time members simply dictate what they like.<br>
<br>
This is neither realistic nor is it any stimulant to the prospective economies that can be built upon a more professional resource map.<br>
<br>
Thus I am proposing to change the resource map to one with simple character identification tags (L for Lumber, G for Natural Gas, C for Cod and Other Fish, etc). Besides the obvious removal of the graphic depictions of these resources, the lettering for a resource would also be proportionate to its size. So a large, boldened letter H near a river would signify that a large amount of Hydroelectric power can be attained in or near that location.<br>
<br>
An example is such:<br>
<!--EZCODE IMAGE START--><img src="http://img331.imageshack.us/img331/9366 ... ple6ve.gif" style="border:0;"/><!--EZCODE IMAGE END--><br>
<br>
The sizing of the letters does not give a static number. Instead, it tells us that there is either a large, medium or small amount of a particular resource. In the example, I only used large and medium. Small would be lettering at around font size 8, bold. But it gives you the general idea nonetheless.<br>
<br>
Not only would this allow for better identification of resources, it would add professionalism to the map, and a greater layering and mixture of resources could be applied.<br>
<br>
Please feel free to dicuss and debate this proposition. It will not be implemented if the greater majority of our members feel opposed to the idea.

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extreme007

Re: Discussion: Quantifying the Resource Map

Post by extreme007 »

the only way this is going to be utilized is through an economic system.. otherwise other than appearence, its of no use, and thus matters not how its done...<br>
<br>
however, with respect to the economic system, we could wait till an economic system that uses such resources come into play...

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Shyriath

Re: Discussion: Quantifying the Resource Map

Post by Shyriath »

Well, I do like the general idea, although I cringe at the aesthetics of using differently sized letters for the task. I suggest using some other kind of symbolism instead, if the old icons would be unsuitable. <br>
<br>
For example, let's say we wanted a symbol for gold that was cleaner and more amenable to representing at different sizes. Let's say it's a yellow diamond, since yellow is a good color for representing gold. So you can put the yellow diamond in three different sizes to represent different-sized desposits of those things.<br>
<br>
And as long as we did that, why not make it so that the symbol for gold relates to the other metals? Let's say that the shape "diamond" represents all the minerals (maybe including gems and semiprecious stones), and that each material has its own color. Gold is a yellow diamond, silver is a light gray diamond, other colors could be assigned as needed. <br>
<br>
Using shapes as markers of category, with colors as indicators of specific materials, would differentiate materials within a category enough to make looking for each one easy, but make all materials of the same category similar-looking enough that, if one wished, one could (for example) see how minerals as a group were distributed around the map. Of course, this approach would require coming up with categories, and then a shape for each category and a color for each material.<br>
<br>
I might also suggest that, for some materials that would naturally have a wide distribution, you might want to consider coloring areas of the map rather than having discrete symbols. For example, good fishing grounds could be labeled with areas of darker blue on the ocean.<br>
<br>
...Just my two cents, as inspired by my trusty old National Geographic atlas.

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johndarcyofanthelia

Re: Discussion: Quantifying the Resource Map

Post by johndarcyofanthelia »

One thing that has worried me is that the resources of this world are fully known and fully quantified. What room for exploration and identification of resources, and rpg elements determining the ease of access to resources and the economics of mining/harvesting/exploiting them?<br>
<br>
I know that not all micronations desire such things in their micronational experience - that's fine - but in the case of Anthelia we have high hopes of setting up an actual economic process for mining and development of primary products. It would help if not everything was known in advance, that is, if a mining company could "discover" minerals, etc, with their success a factor of their level of investment.<br>
<br>


<p>Cheers<br>
<br>
John Darcy<br>
Executive Councillor<br>
Minister for Finance, Economy and Business<br>
Minister for Immigration<br>
<!--EZCODE LINK START--><a href="http://anthelia.net">Republic of Anthelia</a><!--EZCODE LINK END--></p><i></i>
Osman Shahanshah

Re: Discussion: Quantifying the Resource Map

Post by Osman Shahanshah »

But I imagine that the exploration and discovery side could be open to abuse - like Country X suddenly saying 'ooh, I've just found a large oil field - that frees my economy from relying on oil imported from those pesky Babkhans' or 'oh look huge deposit of uranium, now I can start building nuclear bombs!'

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Yuri Zhivago

Re: Discussion: Quantifying the Resource Map

Post by Yuri Zhivago »

That's what Babkha did though. <!--EZCODE EMOTICON START ;) --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/wink.gif ALT=";)"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> You strolled into Zemlya and said "Oh look, we've found an adequate supply of Yellow Cake, now for some ethnic cleansing in Antica!" <br>
<br>
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<!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong><!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>We must be ever vigilant, Comrades!</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--></strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--><br>
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johndarcyofanthelia

Re: Discussion: Quantifying the Resource Map

Post by johndarcyofanthelia »

So you still have a broad-scale resource map, but the full details are known only to a "board of commissioners". Nation Z says "We think we have found uranium at coordinates XY" and the Board of Commissioners says "Yes, there might be uranium there" or "No, that's impossible in that area". Respect for the system is what will make it work. Abuse of the system will render the whole resource-map concept a waste of energy.<br>


<p>Cheers<br>
<br>
John Darcy<br>
Executive Councillor<br>
Minister for Finance, Economy and Business<br>
Minister for Immigration<br>
<!--EZCODE LINK START--><a href="http://anthelia.net">Republic of Anthelia</a><!--EZCODE LINK END--></p><i></i>
graius

Re: Discussion: Quantifying the Resource Map

Post by graius »

Occam's Razor, please. Keep it simple.

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Krasniy Yastreb

Re: Discussion: Quantifying the Resource Map

Post by Krasniy Yastreb »

Maybe naturally-occuring resources could be marked as "large", while developed resources could be "small" I'm thinking of things like forestry, agriculture, certain industries etc. that can realistically be developed from scratch by individual nations.<br>
<br>
Then again, I speak with Zemlyan bias... we're Micras-renowned for having so much uranium in the form of waste dumpage and surplus warheads, we can harvest and export it as a resource for decades to come... <!--EZCODE EMOTICON START :b --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/tongue.gif ALT=":b"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END-->

<p><!--EZCODE CENTER START--><div style="text-align:center"><!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>Krasniy Yastreb</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--><br>
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<!--EZCODE LINK START--><a href="http://p219.ezboard.com/bnovayazemlya">Soviet Republic of Novaya Zemlya</a><!--EZCODE LINK END--><br>
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drspangle13

Re: Discussion: Quantifying the Resource Map

Post by drspangle13 »

It does say by the resources map <br>
<br>
<!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>The resource map provides a rough outline of where major deposits and resources lay across the planet. This map only shows where major desposits are. For the sake of fairness, it is assumed that nearly all resources are accessible to all members in some quantity.<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br>


<p>-------------<br>
dr-spangle<br>
one of the two emperors of www.new-empire.com<br>
<!--EZCODE LINK START--><a href="http://www.sloganizer.net/en/"><!--EZCODE IMAGE START--><img src="http://www.sloganizer.net/en/style3,new ... <!--EZCODE IMAGE END--></a><!--EZCODE LINK END--> </p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p100.ezboard.com/bmicronationaln ... angle13</A> at: 22/12/05 18:57<br></i>
St Fenix

Re: Discussion: Quantifying the Resource Map

Post by St Fenix »

<!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>Well, I do like the general idea, although I cringe at the aesthetics of using differently sized letters for the task. I suggest using some other kind of symbolism instead, if the old icons would be unsuitable. <br>
<br>
For example, let's say we wanted a symbol for gold that was cleaner and more amenable to representing at different sizes. Let's say it's a yellow diamond, since yellow is a good color for representing gold. So you can put the yellow diamond in three different sizes to represent different-sized desposits of those things.<br>
<br>
And as long as we did that, why not make it so that the symbol for gold relates to the other metals? Let's say that the shape "diamond" represents all the minerals (maybe including gems and semiprecious stones), and that each material has its own color. Gold is a yellow diamond, silver is a light gray diamond, other colors could be assigned as needed. <br>
<br>
Using shapes as markers of category, with colors as indicators of specific materials, would differentiate materials within a category enough to make looking for each one easy, but make all materials of the same category similar-looking enough that, if one wished, one could (for example) see how minerals as a group were distributed around the map. Of course, this approach would require coming up with categories, and then a shape for each category and a color for each material.<br>
<br>
I might also suggest that, for some materials that would naturally have a wide distribution, you might want to consider coloring areas of the map rather than having discrete symbols. For example, good fishing grounds could be labeled with areas of darker blue on the ocean.<br>
<br>
...Just my two cents, as inspired by my trusty old National Geographic atlas.<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br>
<br>
I do agree that the symbols are much more interesting to look at rather then huge Letters.<br>
<br>
And that collective symbols for certain types of resrouces Is a good system (I.E. minerals,agriculture,power,trade resources) Using a diamond with different colors and maybe wheat for agriculture and horses for pack animals. All different sizes and colors depending on what kind they are and how much.<br>
<br>
I like this system.<br>
<br>
-St. Fenix

<p>Middle Korea<br>
www.MiddleKorea.com</p><i></i>
drspangle13

Re: Discussion: Quantifying the Resource Map

Post by drspangle13 »

Symbols, in my opinion, would be better as you can only have 26 letters (36 if you put numbers too) but you can have infinate symbols (although the downside tyo symbols is the smaller tghey get the less you can distinguish them).

<p>-------------<br>
dr-spangle<br>
one of the two emperors of www.new-empire.com<br>
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Johanns V

Re: Discussion: Quantifying the Resource Map

Post by Johanns V »

I prefer the letters. It looks much more professional. Besides which, you could put down, say Cu for copper and so forth, which negates the previous argument. I'd think C would be better for coal and F for fish though personally.

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drspangle13

Re: Discussion: Quantifying the Resource Map

Post by drspangle13 »

But symbols make it more user freindly.

<p>-------------<br>
dr-spangle<br>
one of the two emperors of www.new-empire.com<br>
<!--EZCODE LINK START--><a href="http://www.sloganizer.net/en/"><!--EZCODE IMAGE START--><img src="http://www.sloganizer.net/en/style3,new ... <!--EZCODE IMAGE END--></a><!--EZCODE LINK END--> </p><i></i>
graius

Re: Discussion: Quantifying the Resource Map

Post by graius »

Aye, and easier to understand.

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Scott of Hyperborea

Re: Discussion: Quantifying the Resource Map

Post by Scott of Hyperborea »

When I made the first resource map, I was working off of a style of resource map that was in all of my school history books and which I found very informative. Although I can't find the history books online, the following links are a pretty good indication of the style.<br>
<br>
<!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://www.midural.ru/ek.en/map/maps/fo ... <!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--><br>
<!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://www.mii.org/images/NAblowupa.jpg ... <!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--><br>
<!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://www.cpaphils.org/maps/map_resour ... <!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--><br>
<!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://www.cnn.com/interactive/specials ... <!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--><br>
<!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://www.crownminerals.govt.nz/minera ... <!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--><br>
<br>
Your idea about putting in letters is, from a human-factors point of view, just awful. It takes much more processing time to recognize a letter than to recognize a little icon. So if I'm looking all over the map for iron deposits, it's going to take a long search to find all the incidences of the letter "I" among all the other letters, whereas it's easy to recognize a little red-gray iron bar among different icons. You can test this if you would like. This is why, contrary to what Johanns says, very few professional companies ever use a letter system. Check, for example, the resource map by Crown Minerals above (which also does not show deposit size).<br>
<br>
While I understand why you would want to have something more exact, in the end I don't think it's going to do you much good. First of all, complex mathematically-simulated economies always fail, and to the best of my knowledge no one has even tried one using the resource map that's ever gotten anywhere. Second, if you were to have such an economy, your idea probably wouldn't be exact enough for it. If we were to use the MCS map for a simulation even of the complexity of Dungeons and Dragons, let alone something really impressive, we would have to divide it into a grid and specify how much of each resource was on each grid square. Anything else would leave far too much fuzziness to make such an economy possible.<br>
<br>
The point of the original map was not to allow precise computation of the tonnage of iron that could be extracted from a particular mine. It was to give people a general idea of the lay of the land as a sort of cultural backdrop. Thus, we know that Babkha has lots of oil, and Shireroth has a good uranium source, et cetera.<br>
<br>
Unfortunately, one of the reasons this doesn't work well anymore is that the resource map up now is not the original, and the original was, IMHO, much better. The new one about quintupled the number of resources on there so that everywhere is pretty much full of a mixture of everything; this makes it impossible to get a "lay of the land" sort of feeling. It also mixes and matches icons from three or four different styles, ruining the simplicity and beauty of the old one and making it much harder to read. It's also just weird; even if you say camels represent "pack animals", sticking camels across the Arctic looks incongruous.<br>
<br>
If we were to restore the old resource map, thn it would provide qualitative information about resources in such a way that it would probably end up being more useful either than your proposal, which goes halfway to giving quantitative information, or the current map, which gives neither.<br>
<br>
For those of you who have never seen the old map, it's at <!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://www.geocities.com/apollostates/r ... <!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END-->

<p></p><i></i>
Emperador Augustin

Re: Discussion: Quantifying the Resource Map

Post by Emperador Augustin »

Your examples are all fine, Scott, but also note that they support my position as well in that the "Civilization" type graphics are absent and single-color icons are used instead.<br>
<br>
Right now, layering the resources on the current resource map is nigh impossible due to the fact that each of the icons is rather large and more of an aesthetic than an actual definition. It's more cultural than it is informational. My gripe is that it should be both equally.<br>
<br>
I would support a move away from the current graphics or lettering to an icon set like the ones displayed in your examples. But this would also need to be supported by our members.<br>
<br>
And note that the changes to the resource map were made after several dozen petitions were made and in agreement with the greater majority of our members. While it may be ungainly, it is what everyone wanted at the time.

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Emperador Augustin

Re: Discussion: Quantifying the Resource Map

Post by Emperador Augustin »

Re-reading and addressing some other replies. I am against adding more bureaucracy to the MCS as in Darcy's proposal. For one, adding an equation and unstable system of exploration would be considered work for many people and something which would be easily subject to stagnation and bureaucratic stalemating. We've tried commissions in the MCS several times before only to have each and every one fail.<br>
<br>
Expanding on Shyriath's idea, which I like, I've come up with a replacement for all the resource icons with a single type label.<br>
<br>
A diamond - based on the same principle as hazmat symbolism (people who don't know safety standards will have no idea what I mean here) - is used to represent a particular area.<br>
<br>
It is divided into eight parts. The outer four parts represent large resources, while the inner four represent smaller resources.<br>
<br>
<!--EZCODE IMAGE START--><img src="http://img340.imageshack.us/img340/8150 ... ank6rx.gif" style="border:0;"/><!--EZCODE IMAGE END--><br>
<br>
Different colors would represent different resources. If an outer and inner part are colored, then it means that particular resource is in an even greater amount in that location.<br>
<br>
For example:<br>
<!--EZCODE IMAGE START--><img src="http://img270.imageshack.us/img270/3530 ... est4yn.gif" style="border:0;"/><!--EZCODE IMAGE END--><br>
This would indicate the location produces a large amount of alcohol/wine (purple), stone materials (lt. grey), lumber (brown), and agricultural products (green). In lesser amounts it also produces hydroelectricity (blue), oil (dk. grey), and meat products (red).<br>
<br>
Thoughts?

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drspangle13

Re: Discussion: Quantifying the Resource Map

Post by drspangle13 »

that is very good and user freindly for sure!

<p>-------------<br>
dr-spangle<br>
one of the two emperors of www.new-empire.com<br>
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graius

Re: Discussion: Quantifying the Resource Map

Post by graius »

Nice

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Shyriath

Re: Discussion: Quantifying the Resource Map

Post by Shyriath »

Hmmmmm.... very flexible.

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Osman Shahanshah

Re: Discussion: Quantifying the Resource Map

Post by Osman Shahanshah »

At a tangent:<br>
<br>
<!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr> That's what Babkha did though. <!--EZCODE EMOTICON START ;) --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/wink.gif ALT=";)"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> You strolled into Zemlya and said "Oh look, we've found an adequate supply of Yellow Cake, now for some ethnic cleansing in Antica!"<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br>
<br>
Aye but Yuri that wasn't a natural resource as such - more a question of picking up all the bits that the old USSR careless discarded around your fair land <!--EZCODE EMOTICON START ;) --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/wink.gif ALT=";)"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END-->

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