Republic of Gaia [modification]

General discussion and chat forum for the MCS. Discuss anything about the maps or chat with other members here.
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Craitman
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Post by Craitman »

kingjames wrote:That's not the original Gaia forum. Hieu made it.
what is the original forum address?
I thought he had made it under permission from the CIS...
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Post by kingjames »

Craitman wrote:
kingjames wrote:That's not the original Gaia forum. Hieu made it.
what is the original forum address?
I thought he had made it under permission from the CIS...
1. I'll try to find it, it was a proboards forum.
2. Nope, search all the forums that you wish, we recieved no notification.
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Post by Craitman »

kingjames wrote:1. I'll try to find it, it was a proboards forum.
2. Nope, search all the forums that you wish, we recieved no notification.
thanks.
Remember, I only know about Gaia from what I've learnt since the new forums were set-up...
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Colonel Vilhelm wrote:Putting a claim into the MCS Administration Council is like sticking your Arm into a large peice of industrial machinery - it probably won't come out, but if it does, it'll have changed alot from how you remember it.
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Post by kingj »

I saw that forum yesterday for some reason...
By my hand,
His Majesty, Jeremy, Second of the Name, King of New Brittania, Guardian of the Principalities of Greater Ithilien and Greater Dol Amroth, of the Duchies of Forostar, Hyarnustar, Mercia and Andustar, and of the Counties of Lóthshire, Isenshire, Emershire, Rómmenashire, Ondoshire, Oromshire, Kanbishire, Risvertshire, Fullhershire, Hammeranshire, Auishire and Korrianshire, Holder of the Horn of North Witham, Defender of Western Benacia, Keeper of Willow and Winner of The People's FNORD Awards named The Peter Little Award for Excellence in Micronational Literature 2007 and Best New Micronationalist 2007.
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Post by Hieu »

kingjames wrote:
Craitman wrote:
kingjames wrote:That's not the original Gaia forum. Hieu made it.
what is the original forum address?
I thought he had made it under permission from the CIS...
1. I'll try to find it, it was a proboards forum.
2. Nope, search all the forums that you wish, we recieved no notification.
James, remember that Forum dates back to 2006 as North Gaia when it has the CIS logo on the header.
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Post by kingjames »

Hieu wrote:
kingjames wrote:
Craitman wrote: what is the original forum address?
I thought he had made it under permission from the CIS...
1. I'll try to find it, it was a proboards forum.
2. Nope, search all the forums that you wish, we recieved no notification.
James, remember that Forum dates back to 2006 as North Gaia when it has the CIS logo on the header.
The current one?
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Post by Hieu »

kingjames wrote:
Hieu wrote:
kingjames wrote: 1. I'll try to find it, it was a proboards forum.
2. Nope, search all the forums that you wish, we recieved no notification.
James, remember that Forum dates back to 2006 as North Gaia when it has the CIS logo on the header.
The current one?
Yes. you registered as "Primeminister" on 2nd July 2006.
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Post by Hieu »

http://cisboard.proboards49.com/index.c ... 1156621794

You broke the treaty yourselves. You say that CIS Elects the leader and you left North Gaia to rot - literally while the South Gaian (Koranga) was not in CIS at all and part of New Brittania's Empire. If that was Sep, he'd find another leader, or lead him itself. How come you didn't object when I said I'm reclaiming Gaia? No-one said yes or no to me, in fact they said nothing! The treaty was broken 10 Months ago by the CIS, Sep's treaty said Gaia will remain in CIS.
North Gaia.
« Thread Started on Aug 26, 2006, 2:49pm »
Earlier today, Hieu informed me that he has left micronationalism. Therefore North Gaia is no longer a member nation of the CIS. And as far as we are concerned it no longer exists.
I reclaimed it and rejoined CIS when Spangle took over, but the fact that it wasn't in CIS for several months, the treaty has been broken!!! YES BROKEN!

and looking at your old fora: http://thecisforums.proboards81.com/index.cgi

It seems you don't pay attention to Gaia or Include it in its nations member list, it's like we're not even here and now you take action.
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Post by Iehova »

A separate micronation that just happened to be called Gaia and bear similarities to the Gaia that was bound by that treaty would not be bound by the aforementioned treaty. It's the same as what happened to Hatay to allow it to become independent.

If this is the case, and the new, different Gaia was allowed to join the CIS, then that's all hunky dory and Gaia can do what it wants.

For reference: http://www.grand-commonwealth.com/forum ... topic=1220
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Post by Hieu »

Iehova wrote:A separate micronation that just happened to be called Gaia and bear similarities to the Gaia that was bound by that treaty would not be bound by the aforementioned treaty. It's the same as what happened to Hatay to allow it to become independent.

If this is the case, and the new, different Gaia was allowed to join the CIS, then that's all hunky dory and Gaia can do what it wants.

For reference: http://www.grand-commonwealth.com/forum ... topic=1220
So in that case, the REPUBLIC of Gaia gets its independance.
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Post by Craitman »

Hieu wrote:So in that case, the REPUBLIC of Gaia gets its independance.
Iehova wrote:that's all hunky dory and Gaia can do what it wants.
I think so Hieu...
Craitman H. Pellegrino CrA; CY; HGH; NM; SOB; WSA
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Colonel Vilhelm wrote:Ten-four Rubber Duck
I (yes that's me, Craitman) wrote:I'm just so quotable
Colonel Vilhelm wrote:Putting a claim into the MCS Administration Council is like sticking your Arm into a large peice of industrial machinery - it probably won't come out, but if it does, it'll have changed alot from how you remember it.
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Post by dr-spangle »

iehova, we gave the land and membership to the gaia in the treaty... should this not be this nation then that is not and was not their land.
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Post by Hieu »

dr-spangle wrote:iehova, we gave the land and membership to the gaia in the treaty... should this not be this nation then that is not and was not their land.
You gave land to the KINGDOM of GAIA in the past...thats not the INDEPENDANT MICRONATION of GAIA. This is neither, this is the REPUBLIC of GAIA.

and I wrote the city names and I remember drawing the Gaian borders on the claim...
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Post by kingjames »

Shouldn't the council be the ones who decide on this rather than just Iehova?

Should "Gaia" be granted this land you would be creating a precedent for 'states' and sub-divisions to be able to claim land, as the CIS is listed as one nation on MCS. How can you declare which states are entitled to what? The CIS decide upon the internal boundaries, if Gaia has left, the land it has vacated should be CIS land.
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Post by kingjames »

This has happened before, with me on the other end ironically; and it was decided in CIS favour.

http://www.micromaps.org/forum/viewtopi ... highlight=

Consistency.

As Ryan said at the time,
Whether Jamzinia keeps its land from the CIS or not is something which needs to be negotiated between Jamzinia and the CIS, not the MCS. We simply act as advisors and, where possible, help people come to agreeable compromises.

And Max -
King James, as I have said on the CIS forums, the CIS claimed as a united micronation and thus has been treated as such. The power to alter borders lies with the CIS senate. Since you are not a member any more, you will have to claim individually. That is exactly what Col did. If you do not want to stay a CIS member, you do not gain CIS MCS land.
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Post by Hieu »

kingjames wrote:This has happened before, with me on the other end ironically; and it was decided in CIS favour.

http://www.micromaps.org/forum/viewtopi ... highlight=

Consistency.

As Ryan said at the time,
Whether Jamzinia keeps its land from the CIS or not is something which needs to be negotiated between Jamzinia and the CIS, not the MCS. We simply act as advisors and, where possible, help people come to agreeable compromises.

And Max -
King James, as I have said on the CIS forums, the CIS claimed as a united micronation and thus has been treated as such. The power to alter borders lies with the CIS senate. Since you are not a member any more, you will have to claim individually. That is exactly what Col did. If you do not want to stay a CIS member, you do not gain CIS MCS land.
Realistically, seceding nations should take the land they took up before. I'm sure Bosnia, Croatia, Macedonia, Serbia and Montenegro are still located in the former yugoslavian land. I'm sure Ukraine are still where the former Ukraine SSR were, I'm sure Belarus is still bordering them too.
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Post by kingjames »

Hieu wrote:
kingjames wrote:This has happened before, with me on the other end ironically; and it was decided in CIS favour.

http://www.micromaps.org/forum/viewtopi ... highlight=

Consistency.

As Ryan said at the time,
Whether Jamzinia keeps its land from the CIS or not is something which needs to be negotiated between Jamzinia and the CIS, not the MCS. We simply act as advisors and, where possible, help people come to agreeable compromises.

And Max -
King James, as I have said on the CIS forums, the CIS claimed as a united micronation and thus has been treated as such. The power to alter borders lies with the CIS senate. Since you are not a member any more, you will have to claim individually. That is exactly what Col did. If you do not want to stay a CIS member, you do not gain CIS MCS land.
Realistically, seceding nations should take the land they took up before. I'm sure Bosnia, Croatia, Macedonia, Serbia and Montenegro are still located in the former yugoslavian land. I'm sure Ukraine are still where the former Ukraine SSR were, I'm sure Belarus is still bordering them too.
Bosnia, Croatioa, Macedonia, Serbia and Montenagro didn't agree to becoming a CIS state, like Gaia. You were well aware that land is CIS land prior to joining. Also in the real world countrys don't exactly have to face a mapping organisation's council, presenting their claim.
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Post by kingj »

When the Ottoman empire broke up they did, some British army officer drew the borders which we now see accross the deserts of the middle east
By my hand,
His Majesty, Jeremy, Second of the Name, King of New Brittania, Guardian of the Principalities of Greater Ithilien and Greater Dol Amroth, of the Duchies of Forostar, Hyarnustar, Mercia and Andustar, and of the Counties of Lóthshire, Isenshire, Emershire, Rómmenashire, Ondoshire, Oromshire, Kanbishire, Risvertshire, Fullhershire, Hammeranshire, Auishire and Korrianshire, Holder of the Horn of North Witham, Defender of Western Benacia, Keeper of Willow and Winner of The People's FNORD Awards named The Peter Little Award for Excellence in Micronational Literature 2007 and Best New Micronationalist 2007.
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Post by dr-spangle »

that's because england ruled the world back then there is no micronational equivalent...
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Post by kingj »

It was actually under the Treaty of Sèvres i think...
By my hand,
His Majesty, Jeremy, Second of the Name, King of New Brittania, Guardian of the Principalities of Greater Ithilien and Greater Dol Amroth, of the Duchies of Forostar, Hyarnustar, Mercia and Andustar, and of the Counties of Lóthshire, Isenshire, Emershire, Rómmenashire, Ondoshire, Oromshire, Kanbishire, Risvertshire, Fullhershire, Hammeranshire, Auishire and Korrianshire, Holder of the Horn of North Witham, Defender of Western Benacia, Keeper of Willow and Winner of The People's FNORD Awards named The Peter Little Award for Excellence in Micronational Literature 2007 and Best New Micronationalist 2007.
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Post by Craitman »

kingj wrote:Treaty of Sèvres
not the most English of place names...
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Colonel Vilhelm wrote:Ten-four Rubber Duck
I (yes that's me, Craitman) wrote:I'm just so quotable
Colonel Vilhelm wrote:Putting a claim into the MCS Administration Council is like sticking your Arm into a large peice of industrial machinery - it probably won't come out, but if it does, it'll have changed alot from how you remember it.
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Post by Hieu »

Craitman wrote:
kingj wrote:Treaty of Sèvres
not the most English of place names...
From Wikipedia:

The Treaty of Sèvres was the peace treaty that the Allies of World War I, not including the United States, and the Ottoman Empire signed on 10 August 1920 after World War I. Representatives from the governments of the parties involved signed the treaty in Sèvres, France.
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Post by Iehova »

kingjames wrote:Shouldn't the council be the ones who decide on this rather than just Iehova?
Sorry, I meant to do that in my non-official voice, and I wasn't actually talking about the territory, which is a separate issue.

As you can see with Hatay, it was recognised by the GC as a different country to their province of Hatay, hence why the new Kingdom was not bound by membership of Babkha.

However, this meant that Hatay didn't get the land on Geiss that it had as the Sultanate, hence claiming on Micras.

So, ignoring the Republic of Gaia's membership or otherwise of the CIS, if this republic is to be considered a different micronation to the old Micronation of Gaia which bound that nation into membership of the CIS, then it can claim on the map, and of course whether that claim is accepted is the Council's decision.

Now, we have to look at Gaia's membership of the CIS (and do remember that I'm saying all this not as a member of the Admin Council, but just as an unofficial onlooker).

IF the original Gaia was declared by the CIS to be dissolved for being dead (as stated somewhere in this thread, I think), and IF the 'new' Gaia joined the CIS later, then it is entirely reasonable to say that they are not bound by the treaty.

Since Gaia was then added to the CIS' territory once again(?), it is reasonable to assume that that land labeled 'Gaia' referred to the republic and not any predecessor.

This isn't to say that they should get this land, nor does it mean that they shouldn't.

In my unofficial opinion, in the interests of map continuity it would be better for Gaia to remain where it is. However, I do recognize the precedent set by Ryan when he was running the MCS.

Sorry once again for sounding like I was speaking for the whole council. I wasn't. Just my unofficial opinion, again.
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Post by kingjames »

Iehova wrote:
kingjames wrote:Shouldn't the council be the ones who decide on this rather than just Iehova?
Sorry, I meant to do that in my non-official voice, and I wasn't actually talking about the territory, which is a separate issue.

As you can see with Hatay, it was recognised by the GC as a different country to their province of Hatay, hence why the new Kingdom was not bound by membership of Babkha.

However, this meant that Hatay didn't get the land on Geiss that it had as the Sultanate, hence claiming on Micras.

So, ignoring the Republic of Gaia's membership or otherwise of the CIS, if this republic is to be considered a different micronation to the old Micronation of Gaia which bound that nation into membership of the CIS, then it can claim on the map, and of course whether that claim is accepted is the Council's decision.

Now, we have to look at Gaia's membership of the CIS (and do remember that I'm saying all this not as a member of the Admin Council, but just as an unofficial onlooker).

IF the original Gaia was declared by the CIS to be dissolved for being dead (as stated somewhere in this thread, I think), and IF the 'new' Gaia joined the CIS later, then it is entirely reasonable to say that they are not bound by the treaty.

Since Gaia was then added to the CIS' territory once again(?), it is reasonable to assume that that land labeled 'Gaia' referred to the republic and not any predecessor.

This isn't to say that they should get this land, nor does it mean that they shouldn't.

In my unofficial opinion, in the interests of map continuity it would be better for Gaia to remain where it is. However, I do recognize the precedent set by Ryan when he was running the MCS.

Sorry once again for sounding like I was speaking for the whole council. I wasn't. Just my unofficial opinion, again.
Ok, thanks for taking the time to explain. My appologies for misinterpreting it.
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Post by dr-spangle »

the way i see it is this:

1)you are the gaia we know and you are bound by said treaty
2)you are not this gaia and that was not your land.
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