Administration Council

Post by **Craitman** » Sun May 13, 2007 3:39 pm

Colonel Vilhelm wrote:He doesn't have a whole lotta free time - boarding school'll do that to you, I guess.

and you're saying the rest have us have tonnes of free time?

Nathan of Natopia · Post by **Nathan of Natopia** » Sun May 13, 2007 3:43 pm

No i certainly agree that running the MCS as a democratic YAMO would certainly choke it to death. That's why Pete, Spangle, and perhaps one more permanent member will remain and then 2 elected people will be on the council. Oligarchy is preserved as the permanents can veto the elects, but the members of the MCS will have people they can elect and actually BE on the council instead of just haphazardly petitioning whenever they don't like something.

I don't want to rip into Max when he's not even around so I wont

Iehova · Post by **Iehova** » Sun May 13, 2007 4:56 pm

I think things were much easier when it was just Ryan running it, simply because decisions were quickly made (with only one person's decision required). This was good because Ryan was always a fair judge, IMHO, so there were no real problems with bias etc.

However, under Ryan maps often didn't appear for extended periods of time... over a month in many cases.

I think today's Admin Council should be commended then, for their faster map-production times. I mean, Spangle seems to get new ones out at the very most weekly, so kudos to Spangle et al.

Of course, having some claims on hold for weeks on because the council has failed to reach a majority isn't preferable.

I agree with Nate's proposal, keep some permanent members with definite roles (ie Spangle running the forums and website, and getting new maps out of the door as fast as is feasible) and make the rest elected.

Post by **Pete** » Mon May 14, 2007 3:22 am

Well currently this is the status of things:

Pete - Admmin Gen
Spangle - Techie Guy (He does the hard things)
Max - Special Maps (Due this summer

)
Fenix - Secretary (He was unable to do his job properly has he didnt have the right permissions for some time (my fault))
Bill - AF representitive (makes sure theres no violations while still using common sense when voting on claims)

the new cartographer will have responsability for either the claims map or the Official ("Special") map. Thats a total of 6...

We might let you pick once we have a look at the maps and narrow it down or somthing...

lub ju,

Pete

Guido Zambelis · Post by **Guido Zambelis** » Mon May 14, 2007 2:42 pm

i think the consensus is that max and benkern at least should be replaced, maybe st fenix as well.

Post by **Pete** » Mon May 14, 2007 3:04 pm

Pease remember though:

7. The MCS reserves the right to overrule popular opinion, poll general opinion, or allow open discussion, on various topics affecting the society.

So we'll consider it

Nathan of Natopia · Post by **Nathan of Natopia** » Mon May 14, 2007 3:23 pm

But if or when there actually is a real consensus wanting token elected admins then the MCS would be remiss if they didn't bend to public opinion.

Remember the GSO was born of disgruntled MCS members...

Post by **dr-spangle** » Mon May 14, 2007 3:50 pm

the charter needs a major overhaul, rule by rule... i'll sgtart it in council

Babs · Post by **Babs** » Mon May 14, 2007 3:53 pm

Oh for god's sake, we still haven't completed the last one...

Guido Zambelis · Post by **Guido Zambelis** » Mon May 14, 2007 3:54 pm

how about you let the members do it?

Post by **dr-spangle** » Mon May 14, 2007 3:54 pm

i know because it's all messed up, i'm seeing if i can get it really rolling now in an orderly fashion rather than the "i don't like this bit" way.

Nathan of Natopia · Post by **Nathan of Natopia** » Mon May 14, 2007 4:55 pm

It's not the charter's fault that its not being followed...

I know I wrote into it some structuring of the Council such as the Secretary General and Chief Cartographer, supplemented by additional technical advisors....

Post by **dr-spangle** » Mon May 14, 2007 5:01 pm

meh some of the charter's old, like bits that don't think about the council...

Andreas the Wise · Post by **Andreas the Wise** » Tue May 15, 2007 3:01 am

I don't know if I'm missing the point here, but isn't the council not so much about clearly defined roles (though that helps) as about experienced micronationalists deciding on claims based on their merit? A popular vote may not be the person who is best able to do this. I know, for example, if Novatainia had been allowed to claim as much as we wanted straight up, we would totally have wasted it. By having to earn it slowly, we've used it much more effectively, but more importantly, been inspired to build up areas like Culture, Military etc that we may not bother about as much had we not needed it for land. I see the MCS Council Role as helping micronations judge their development, and provide goals (land) to strive for.

So people saying Max has done nothing doesn't make sense to me when I hear him mentioning various times "I've looked on your forum and you don't have this you said you did," or "I've looked on your forum and you have nothing." To me, that seems the essence of council-ship.

Thus an Oligarchic and self-perpetuating system (ie replacing people when they leave ... which is one thing the council hasn't done too well of late) seems most sensible.

However, I agree with the proposal that the Council should have some permanent members (who should be example micronationalists) and some elected members, but perhaps 4 set (being changed as needed on the current system) and 3 elected. If we have more people, then less people need to vote before a claim is passed, acheiving the efficiency we so much desire.

Summary: People on Council should be both efficient in their work, and experienced in micronations enough to be an appropriate judge of their development. 4 Permanent members and 3 elected ones will ensure both stability and representation of opinion.

Post by **Craitman** » Tue May 15, 2007 3:06 am

Andreas the Wise wrote:Summary: People on Council should be both efficient in their work, and experienced in micronations enough to be an appropriate judge of their development.

and they must be quite active too, there's no good having a super-efficient worker who only works an hour a week is there...

Post by **dr-spangle** » Tue May 15, 2007 10:59 am

if our forum measured the amount of time you're online we could graph it nicely.

Babs · Post by **Babs** » Tue May 15, 2007 11:07 am

7? I think thats too many, think about who's here everyday.

Spangle,
Myself
Craitman
Pete
Andreas
possibly cairney.

Post by **Pete** » Tue May 15, 2007 11:16 am

Vilhelm is here everyday...

ANd some times I disappear for up to THREE DAYS!

Babs · Post by **Babs** » Tue May 15, 2007 11:19 am

And Vilhelm yeah (soz Vilhelm!

)

Colonel Vilhelm · Post by **Colonel Vilhelm** » Tue May 15, 2007 11:37 am

No problemo.

What perhaps some of you don't appreciate is the work Fenix does in the Council. Regardless of what he physically does (moving threads etc.), his posts are usually really long, usually containing most of the factors we need to consider about the claims he posts in. He's certainly a valuable addition to the Council in that way IMO.

Post by **dr-spangle** » Tue May 15, 2007 11:37 am

when i go on holiday somtimes i don't log onto the forum for up to 12 hours!

*someone pats on back*

"it's ok, we all have to admit our problems..."

Post by **Craitman** » Tue May 15, 2007 11:50 am

Colonel Vilhelm wrote:his posts are usually really long

i always look forward to Fenix's monthly stories...

Babs · Post by **Babs** » Tue May 15, 2007 1:18 pm

Colonel Vilhelm wrote:No problemo.

his posts are usually really long, usually containing most of the factors we need to consider about the claims he posts in.

See if someone *cough* AG! *cough* would open the council to general viewing......

I mean, why should we have a right to know, it's not as if we're the public or anything......

Andreas the Wise · Post by **Andreas the Wise** » Wed May 16, 2007 4:10 am

Babs wrote:7? I think thats too many, think about who's here everyday.

Spangle,
Myself
Craitman
Pete
Andreas
possibly cairney.

Awww, I feel touched ... but I'm only on daily in holidays, during term its not that much unless I notice important issues (like the Beaugium claim).

I agree with craitman, but I did actually mean regularly active as part of efficient.

I just thought 7 as 5 seems too small, and 6 gets the problem of ties ...

Swamp Candle · Post by **Swamp Candle** » Thu May 17, 2007 6:49 am

Babs wrote:7? I think thats too many, think about who's here everyday.

Spangle,
Myself
Craitman
Pete
Andreas
possibly cairney.

*sits in a huff*