question about the closing of the isles question about the c

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jdsager

question about the closing of the isles question about the c

Post by jdsager »

A question as to why the thread questioning the closing of the isles discussion was closed?

<p></p><i></i>
President Darcy of Anthel

Re: question about the closing of the isles question about t

Post by President Darcy of Anthel »

I've got the same question, and every time the thread is closed I will be asking a new question.<br>
<br>
Between John Sager and myself, we should have all time zones covered. Some of you will get mighty sick of us.<br>
<br>


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Cheers<br>
<br>
<!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>John P Darcy</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--><br>
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<!--EZCODE FONT START--><span style="color:red;font-family:verdana;font-size:large;">Republic of Anthelia</span><!--EZCODE FONT END--><!--EZCODE IMAGE START--><img src="http://anthelia.net/mn/flag_anim_68x50.gif" style="border:0;"/><!--EZCODE IMAGE END--></p><i></i>
Emperador Augustin

Re: question about the closing of the isles question about t

Post by Emperador Augustin »

I haven't even been home all day, so someone besides myself closed those threads. In any event, you may discuss whatever you wish to discuss. But keep it confined to this thread and I will answer any questions or concerns that are brought before me.

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Scott of Hyperborea

Re: question about the closing of the isles question about t

Post by Scott of Hyperborea »

[reposted from its own thread now that this is open]<br>
<br>
I would appreciate clarification on the current MCS policies regarding giving land "disputed" status.<br>
<br>
In one sense, any old claim by anyone counts as disputing the status of land. Thus, if Shireroth claims the entire Babkhan continent as the Duchy of Eura, then Babkha's claim to Eura is "disputed" by Shireroth. However, it certainly would not make for an easily readable or particularly useful map if you were to put such a claim in, and giving the name "Duchy of Eura" equal billing with "Kingdom of Babkha" would be an insult to the Babkhan nation and likely to be misleading to a casual reader. It also means, to take an extreme example, that a smallish but militaristic nation, such as Treithar, could claim all of Micras, forcing you to take the time to put little lines across the entire world.<br>
<br>
The fickle nature of recwars make them useless as a means of land claim adjucation. First of all, absent a responsible authority like SNARL, anyone can claim to have "won" a recwar simply by god-modding. Further, at least half of the nations on MCS refuse to recwar on general principle. If a nation claims to have "invaded" them, they should not suddenly have all of their territory and their very name called into question.<br>
<br>
So, once again, I would appreciate clarification on the current MCS policies. Do all claims, no matter how outlandish, lead to disputed status and the listing of alternate names? Or only ones the cartographers think are reasonable? If reasonability is an issue, are you so naive as to tie it into recwars, or are you going to open yourself to accusations of bias by granting it in some cases but not others?

<p></p><i></i>
Nathan of Natopia

Re: question about the closing of the isles question about t

Post by Nathan of Natopia »

MCS powers-that-be:<br>
<br>
Please be aware that Sullifree has recently, of its own free will, agreed to give its lands to Natopia. <br>
<br>
<!--EZCODE LINK START--><a href="http://chancellornate.proboards20.com/i ... ee-Natopia Treaty</a><!--EZCODE LINK END--><br>
<br>
<br>
The treaty will be signed and ratified by both sovereign powers shortly.

<p>His Sovereign Majesty, Nathan<br>
Sovereign Natopian Emperor<br>
<br>
<!--EZCODE LINK START--><a href="http://natopia.cjb.net">Natopia</a><!--EZCODE LINK END--><br>
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bmsprint

Re: question about the closing of the isles question about t

Post by bmsprint »

The question is, does Babkha continue to wish a dispute of the lands, now against Natopia?

<p>Brian Capelle<br>
Grand Prince of <!--EZCODE LINK START--><a href="http://sullifree.cjb.net/">Sullifree</a><!--EZCODE LINK END--></p><i></i>
Nathan of Natopia

Re: question about the closing of the isles question about t

Post by Nathan of Natopia »

Or rather, does the MCS wish to give this dispute credit... now that the disputed lands are in control of Natopia, an active and stable nation?

<p>His Sovereign Majesty, Nathan<br>
Sovereign Natopian Emperor<br>
<br>
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President Darcy of Anthel

Re: question about the closing of the isles question about t

Post by President Darcy of Anthel »

My concerns are similar to those expressed by Scott.<br>
<br>
As I said before, if some other micronation were to say to Anthelia "We are invading you" and then say in this forum "We dispute Anthelia's territory", then my simple response would be to deny it because any such invasion is a figment of someone's imagination.<br>
<br>
Only if there is a common playing ground and agreed rules between two micronations, can there be any sort of "territorial" dispute ... and the MCS Policies are not enough.<br>
<br>
I suggest that for a "dispute" to be marked up on the MCS map, it should require the input of both sides of the (supposed) dispute. In the case under review, Sullifree has said "We're not interested in your game" and so the Grand Commonwealth should be told to go and find something else to do.<br>
<br>
Alternately, if Sullifree was to say "Yes, we will engage the Grand Commonwealth in this (fantasy) war", then the MCS can record it. By acting merely on the volition of one side, the MCS has stepped outside the boundaries of "cartographer" and pretended itself to be much more.<br>
<br>
A real-world example to focus your minds: I have a number of atlases on my shelf, some of them are getting old. Those that are more than 15 years old show the border between East Germany and Poland as being "unofficial" or "disputed" (the Oder-Neisse line), and it was. But none of them show the state of Israel as being "unrecognised" or "disputed" because that was (and still is) a minority opinion. For the vast majority of the world, Israel had a non-disputed place on the map.<br>
<br>
The MCS should treat disputes in the same way. Give credit to the majority and err on the side of conservatism and stability. Do not blow with the breeze from a single agitator.<br>


<p><!--EZCODE HR START--><hr /><!--EZCODE HR END--><br>
Cheers<br>
<br>
<!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>John P Darcy</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--><br>
President<br>
<!--EZCODE FONT START--><span style="color:red;font-family:verdana;font-size:large;">Republic of Anthelia</span><!--EZCODE FONT END--><!--EZCODE IMAGE START--><img src="http://anthelia.net/mn/flag_anim_68x50.gif" style="border:0;"/><!--EZCODE IMAGE END--></p><i></i>
Neil Spall

Re: question about the closing of the isles question about t

Post by Neil Spall »

<!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>I haven't even been home all day, so someone besides myself closed those threads.<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br>
<br>
No @#%$, Sherlock. Perhaps "that person" should not be in a position to do that without your direct say so.

<p><b>Neil Spall</b>
<hr />
<li>Minister for Community Services
<li>Commissioner, National Police Office
<li>Republic of Anthelia
<hr />
<li>Lieutenant General
<li>Minister of Defence
<li>The Republic of Treithar

</p><i></i>
Tahmaseb Shah

Re: question about the closing of the isles question about t

Post by Tahmaseb Shah »

As far as the Grand Commonwealth is concerned, the matter is solved. Read <!--EZCODE LINK START--><a href="http://www.mncentre.net/comm/forum/view ... <!--EZCODE LINK END-->

<p><!--EZCODE IMAGE START--><img src="http://koti.phnet.fi/ahtuomas/tahmaseb.png" style="border:0;"/><!--EZCODE IMAGE END--></p><i></i>
Nathan of Natopia

Re: question about the closing of the isles question about t

Post by Nathan of Natopia »

Im glad this could be solved as quickly as it was.

<p>His Sovereign Majesty, Nathan<br>
Sovereign Natopian Emperor<br>
<br>
<!--EZCODE LINK START--><a href="http://natopia.cjb.net">Natopia</a><!--EZCODE LINK END--><br>
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graius

Re: question about the closing of the isles question about t

Post by graius »

I seem to remember that the last time that an uproar occurred about disputed regions, in fact, the last time a region was disputed, was the Charlotta incident, which had involved a hacking & coup attempt. That's very different from this case. In fact, if this is to continue then I may well dispute the Kitanus Fields, just to piss Warvoid off.

<p><a href="http://www.treithar.net"><img src="http://www.bestshottheatre.co.uk/images/sig.GIF" border=0></a></p><i></i>
Scott of Hyperborea

Re: question about the closing of the isles question about t

Post by Scott of Hyperborea »

I'm glad to see the GC willing to resolve the issue, but I can't help but be a little worried at Lachlan's "We won't apologize, we're always right" tone. You're backing off because the "scourge" of Sullifree has been removed from the MCS Map? Were we all standing in fear of Sullifree, praying to whatever gods we believed in that Babkha would be brave enough to remove it? I must have missed all the blood-chilling fear somehow.<br>
<br>
The important issue here is not whether another country has annexed Sullifree (which should not have had to happen), but whether it is okay for Babkha to rec-invade an unwilling country with no provocation. If you say that it <!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>is</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--> okay, but now that Sullifree is in Natopian hands you won't bother, then I don't consider this issue resolved, only delayed until the next time the same idea pops into your head.<br>
<br>
Further, I think it's important that the MCS develop a consistent policy on this issue for the next time. What are you going to do about disputed land claims?<br>
<br>
So although I'm glad to hear about this, it would be great if people could reassure us that they had solved the underlying reasons behind this problem.

<p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p100.ezboard.com/bmicronationaln ... orea>Scott of Hyperborea</A>&nbsp; <IMG HEIGHT=10 WIDTH=10 SRC="http://www.geocities.com/failtefraternity/eye.txt " BORDER=0> at: 28/11/05 18:09<br></i>
shadowbladeprime

Re: question about the closing of the isles question about t

Post by shadowbladeprime »

the coalitin took over those island fiar andf square- i believe natopia has no legit claims to these islands

<p>Let the winds of war blow into my favour and let the winds carry the dogs of war- colonal Trinzk 5th Woodstanic regular guard division</p><i></i>
Bill3000

Re: question about the closing of the isles question about t

Post by Bill3000 »

What? The "coalition" (Grand Commonwealth) made a couple of posts and were banned from the forums. Sulifree does not RecWar.<br>
<br>
Natopia does have a legit claim, as Brian has given it to them.

<p><center><b>Bill Dusch - Archon of Soloralism</b><br>
<a href="http://www.shireroth.org/guide.html"><b>Citizen of Shireroth</a><br>Baron of Antya</b><br>
Proud to be Apollonian<br><br>
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shadowbladeprime

Re: question about the closing of the isles question about t

Post by shadowbladeprime »

the members of the coalition of the willing:<br>
Woodstania <br>
G.C.member nations<br>
Stormark

<p>Let the winds of war blow into my favour and let the winds carry the dogs of war- colonal Trinzk 5th Woodstanic regular guard division</p><i></i>
Osman Shahanshah

Re: question about the closing of the isles question about t

Post by Osman Shahanshah »

It wasn't recwar it was neither consentual or prescripted, it was the absence of peace in which the trappings associated with recwar were employed to make simulated warfare the continuation of simulated politics and it had its effect since it made Brian run off to the nearest safe port.

<p><!--EZCODE CENTER START--><div style="text-align:center"><br>
<!--EZCODE IMAGE START--><img src="http://www.geocities.com/ardashirkhan/S ... Palace.txt" style="border:0;"/><!--EZCODE IMAGE END--><br>
<br>
</div><!--EZCODE CENTER END--></p><i></i>
Bill3000

Re: question about the closing of the isles question about t

Post by Bill3000 »

RecWar is the same thing as simulated warfare - they are the same name.<br>
<br>
All recreational or simulated warfare must be consentual. Otherwise it is useless as a measure of warfare. Brain didn't "run off to the nearest port." He banned you and decided to join Natopia just to stop your antics.<br>
<br>
Godmodding is easily a result of non-consentual simulated warfare, and once you get to that point, it is a complete and utter mockery. Micronations should <!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>not</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--> go to the level of legalizing godmodding. Otherwise, as was said before, Treithar can annex Micras and claimed to nuke it all. That's fine for a story thread, but not micronations. You can't expect people to accept what they refuse to be a part of.

<p><center><b>Bill Dusch - Archon of Soloralism</b><br>
<a href="http://www.shireroth.org/guide.html"><b>Citizen of Shireroth</a><br>Baron of Antya</b><br>
Proud to be Apollonian<br><br>
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shadowbladeprime

Re: question about the closing of the isles question about t

Post by shadowbladeprime »

did hitler ask for polands consent to invade? or maybe japan sent the US an invition to join in the bombing of pearl harbour- note the sarcism billy boy

<p>Let the winds of war blow into my favour and let the winds carry the dogs of war- colonal Trinzk 5th Woodstanic regular guard division</p><i></i>
drspangle13

Re: question about the closing of the isles question about t

Post by drspangle13 »

<!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>RecWar is the same thing as simulated warfare<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br>
<br>
Then what are we worrieing about, if it's just simulated warfare, as i have said before nothing happens. People just say "oh i've cyberbombed you" but nothing happens.

<p></p><i></i>
Osman Shahanshah

Re: question about the closing of the isles question about t

Post by Osman Shahanshah »

<!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>All recreational or simulated warfare must be consentual. Otherwise it is useless as a measure of warfare. Brain didn't "run off to the nearest port." He banned you and decided to join Natopia just to stop your antics.<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br>
<br>
For 'run off to nearest port' please read 'joined Natopia to stop our antics' hence the saying any port in a storm. <!--EZCODE EMOTICON START :P --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/tongue.gif ALT=":P"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END-->

<p><!--EZCODE CENTER START--><div style="text-align:center"><br>
<!--EZCODE IMAGE START--><img src="http://www.geocities.com/ardashirkhan/S ... Palace.txt" style="border:0;"/><!--EZCODE IMAGE END--><br>
<br>
</div><!--EZCODE CENTER END--></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p100.ezboard.com/bmicronationaln ... shah>Osman Shahanshah</A>&nbsp; <IMG HEIGHT=10 WIDTH=10 SRC="http://www.geocities.com/failtefraternity/eye.txt" BORDER=0> at: 28/11/05 20:45<br></i>
shadowbladeprime

Re: question about the closing of the isles question about t

Post by shadowbladeprime »

like a coward- he should have stayed and fight like a good citizen

<p>Let the winds of war blow into my favour and let the winds carry the dogs of war- colonal Trinzk 5th Woodstanic regular guard division</p><i></i>
drspangle13

Re: question about the closing of the isles question about t

Post by drspangle13 »

<!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>You can't expect people to accept what they refuse to be a part of. <hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br>
<br>
That is a good point, one that was ignored in the war against lovely, if i asked them now what they thought on the war agaisnt them, they would either see it as a joke, or have no idea what i am tallking about, because no-one has brought it up to the ruler.

<p></p><i></i>
Bill3000

Re: question about the closing of the isles question about t

Post by Bill3000 »

<!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>did hitler ask for polands consent to invade? or maybe japan sent the US an invition to join in the bombing of pearl harbour- note the sarcism billy boy<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br>
<br>
First of all, stop talking. You obviously have no idea what you are talking about.<br>
<br>
Second of all, macronational comparations don't work here in micronations.<br>
<br>
Third of all, there is no enforcement. There would be enforcement if there was an agreement, but there isn't. Sulifree did not want to participate in recreational warfare. End of story. You can't invade something by making a post when it has no actual influence or enforcement.<br>
<br>
<!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr><br>
That is a good point, one that was ignored in the war against lovely, if i asked them now what they thought on the war agaisnt them, they would either see it as a joke, or have no idea what i am tallking about, because no-one has brought it up to the ruler.<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br>
<br>
That's because they did ignore it and did not want to bother to even communicate with you. Lovely had obviously felt that it was a waste of their time to even acknowledge it.<br>
<br>
<!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr><br>
Then what are we worrieing about, if it's just simulated warfare, as i have said before nothing happens. People just say "oh i've cyberbombed you" but nothing happens.<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br>
Simulated warfare can work if there are consequences in a mutual binding agreement. <br>
More importantly, we are worried here because the MCS is apparently making territory disputed when the territory does not want to participate in a war. A dispute is a result of war or real diplomatic disputes - such as the Lac Glacei dispute the GC and Shireroth is having. Not a matter of a unilateral godmodding recwar. <!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>THAT</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--> is why it is a problem.

<p><center><b>Bill Dusch - Archon of Soloralism</b><br>
<a href="http://www.shireroth.org/guide.html"><b>Citizen of Shireroth</a><br>Baron of Antya</b><br>
Proud to be Apollonian<br><br>
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Osman Shahanshah

Re: question about the closing of the isles question about t

Post by Osman Shahanshah »

I agree godmodding is a problem. Perhaps there should be a move away from recwar towards more paramilitary flaming <!--EZCODE EMOTICON START :P --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/tongue.gif ALT=":P"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END-->

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