Atos, Micras, and the Habitable Zone

Bill3000 · Post by **Bill3000** » Sat Feb 11, 2006 5:46 pm

I have originally posted this in the Micronational Astronomy Society, but I think it might be better if we focus in on here. Ryan said that I should do it here, anyway. 
 
The Habitable Zone of a solar system is self-explanatory - it is the spherical shell surrounding a star in which a planet must reside in to have liquid water. The habitable zone is primarily dependent on luminosity, defined as the power output of the star. These measurements are obviously going to be useful in detailing the Atos system. 
 
However, before we discuss luminosity, let me suggest this: That we have a different habitable zone from Earth - in particular, one farther than Earth's. This would mean an increase in the luminoity of Atos. Why? Two reasons. 
 
1) A larger habitable zone means that there is a possibility that more than one planet can fit in the zone. Whether in our case it is Indigo or Momiji is something to be decided later and not a concern of this thread. 
 
2) It gives Micras some variety. Currently, Micras is a clone of Earth in pretty much all ways except geography. Having a further out habitable zone means that we will have a custom year with the same climate as Earth. 
 
So, how do we go about this? Well, first, there is the matter of the star, which is the entire factor behind the habitable zone, after all. Let's start with the stellar classifcation. 
 
O &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 30,000 - 60,000 K &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Ultraviolet-violet 
B &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 10,000 - 30,000 K &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Blue 
A &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 7,500 - 10,000 K &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp White-green 
F &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 6,000 - 7,500 K &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Yellow-white 
G &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 5,000 - 6,000 K &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Yellow 
K &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 3,500 - 5,000 K &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Yellow-orange 
M &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 2,000 - 3,500 K &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Orange-red 
 
For reference, the Sun has a surface temperature of 5780 K, and Alpha Centauri A (A close nearby star that may have the possibility of a habitable planet and used a lot in scifi) has a surface temperature of 5,800 K, although it is larger. As you can see, the temperature of the star is clearly related to the color of the star. The best candidate for a star with a habitable planet is obviously within the G classifcation, although late K and early F can work too. Here's a visualization of color temperature, related to the classification system: 
 
<img src="http://bill3000.hypermart.net/Shireroth ...  
 
Now, for the actual formulas. First of all, there is a way to calculate the peak wavelength of a black body at a particular temperature. As you know, wavelength determines color. This formula is: 
 
<img src="http://bill3000.hypermart.net/Shireroth ...  
 
Lambda is obviously the wavelength, T is the temperature of the blackbody, and that constant is, well, a constant. <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/tongue.gif ALT=":P"> This is the peak of the plank distribution of wavelength. 
 
So now we can do the color the star and its temperature. What now? Now comes the issue of the luminosity of the star. The luminosity of a star is simply the power output of a star. This is determined by the Stefan-Boltzmann law, which for the surface of a spherical black body is: 
 
<img src="http://bill3000.hypermart.net/Shireroth ...  
 
L is the luminosity of the star. R is the radius of the star. T is the temperature of the star. Sigma is the <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stefan-Bol ... -Boltzmann constant.</a> This is the absolute luminosity; e.g. the luminosity in SI, rather than comparing to the luminosity of the sun. However, for our cases, it probably is better to have a measure of luminosity relative to the sun. By dividing the absolute luminosity by the luminosity of the sun, you get the following: 
 
<img src="http://bill3000.hypermart.net/Shireroth ...  
L, R, and T are the same as before. The circle with a dot in the middle signifies that quantity of the sun (e.g. R_O means the radius of the sun.) This formula is a bit simpler, and changes unit systems into something that will be helpful for us. All we need is to pick a particular radius of the star and we can get the luminosity of Atos. 
 
Now, how does this relate to other quantities? It so happens that for main sequence stars (the majority of stars, of which the sun is a part of), mass is related to the luminosity of a star through the following formula. 
 
<img src="http://bill3000.hypermart.net/Shireroth ...  
 
Thus, we can determine the mass of the star. Of course, all of this is well and good, but how does it relate to the habitable zone? Simple. Intensity, (power per area) is a measure of how much electromagnetic radiation reaches a body at a certain distance away. It so happens that intensity is an inverse square law, just like gravity. So, it's relatively simple here. Define the central habitable zone of the solar system to be the distance of the Earth from the sun, 1 AU. It is possible to come up with this formula for the central habitable zone of a star: 
 
<img src="http://bill3000.hypermart.net/Shireroth ...  
 
Now, this measure is all well and good, but there's a slight problem. We want a measurement for a shell, not a line. There must be a range. I found from someone else these formulas, although they relate to the mass of the star, and not the luminosity, but it can be calculated from the previous formulas anyway. 
 
After a bunch of mathematical shuffling and investigation, I have come up with this rough formula: 
 
<img src="http://bill3000.hypermart.net/Shireroth ...  
 
D = The distance from the star (m) 
T = The temperature that you desire (For the habitable zone, between 273 - 373 K) 
a = Albedo of planet (dimensionless, between 0 and 1) 
L = Luminosity of star (W) 
sigma = Stefan-Boltzmann constant, as usual 
kappa = A constant relating to Earth's greenhouse effect 
g = A factor relating to the planet's greenhouse effect, (dimensionless, Earth = 1) 
 
I have created a program that allows you to easily put input into the formula to get the habitable zone range for the planet. It is located <a href="http://bill3000.hypermart.net/Shireroth ...  
 
Or we can get really lazy and choose a value from <a href="http://www.io.com/~iareth/mainsequence. ... , which is probably a good idea because it has so much more information. 
 
So we now have all the tools needed to find the habitable zone and distance of Micras from Atos. I strongly suggest something at least slightly different from Earth, even if it is something like 1.25 AU, as well as a high F star. Having more of a "white" star than the sun would be neat, as well as give us the possibility to have more than one habitable planet (No, this doesn't mean we could colonize it <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/tongue.gif ALT=":P"> )

<center>Bill Dusch - Archon of Soloralism - Founder of <a href="http://p104.ezboard.com/bnationofteliko ... /a> 
Citizen of Shireroth Baron of Antya 
Proud to be Apollonian 
<script language="Javascript">
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drspangle13 · Post by **drspangle13** » Sat Feb 11, 2006 6:10 pm

At this rate i belive making a new planet may soon be needed, although not now and maybe not ever, as the number of members of the mcs is increasing rapidly. When i first looked at this forum it had 4-5 pages now, there are 9, it is definately more active and the number of micronations is increasing rapidly, and smaller micronations are claiming bigger areas, places with 4-5 citizens are claiming the equivelant to half of babkha. either people should be allowed less land or, a new planet may soon be needed. (which i don't atually want as it would be so difficult to compare them and keep records.) 
 
EDIT: Put in punchuation, is it ok?

Edited by: <A HREF=http://p100.ezboard.com/bmicronationaln ... angle13</A> at: 11/2/06 23:40

Sander042802 · Post by **Sander042802** » Sat Feb 11, 2006 6:31 pm

Punctuation marks, please. It's really starting to annoy me, and I'm sure I'm not alone. 
 
Other than that, I don't think we'll need another planet any time soon. The MCS has in some way always ensured that enough land was available, and I'm pretty confident that it will continue to do so. The rate at which new nations appear may have increased, but the rate at which they disappear has increased at least equally as much.

Sander Dieleman 
<a href="http://mncentre.net/lemuria/forum"><img src="http://users.skynet.be/fa221745/sigbanner.png" style="border:0;"/></a>

Kuralyov · Post by **Kuralyov** » Sat Feb 11, 2006 7:55 pm

I'm curious, could a nation claim territory on one of those other planets? Are there any other habitable ones? It might be fun to have a space colony micronation.

<div style="text-align:center">Kuralyov, long-lost prodigal 
<a href="mailto:redmenace42@yahoo.com"> redmenace42@yahoo.com</a> 
AIM: Clan MacGuimont | ICQ: 247557148 | MSN: kuralyov | YIM: redmenace42 
Have you seen March of the Penguins yet? 
</div>

OctaviusMe · Post by **OctaviusMe** » Sat Feb 11, 2006 8:44 pm

Multiple planets would be interesting... interplanetary warfare, here we come!

Emperador Augustin · Post by **Emperador Augustin** » Sat Feb 11, 2006 9:08 pm

For now and the immediate future, extraterrestrial colonisation is out of the question. 
 
There are too many variables for abuse of the system and other factors which would have to be considered. 
 
I.E. How do you go about putting Shireroth's fantasy elements into a futuristic scenario? Space dragons anyone? Or, another example. How do you balance Gotzborg's turn-of-the-century technological setting against that of a micronation with modern technology, like Antica?

<div style="text-align:center"><a href="http://p074.ezboard.com/fmicronationaln ... <img src="http://www.hometown.aol.com/augustinbar ... gpart1.gif" style="border:0;"/></a><a href="http://www.geocities.com/microcartography"><img src="http://www.hometown.aol.com/augustinbar ... gpart2.gif" style="border:0;"/></a><a href="http://p202.ezboard.com/bbabkha"><img src="http://www.hometown.aol.com/augustinbar ... gpart3.gif" style="border:0;"/></a><a href="http://p200.ezboard.com/blacglacei" target="top"><img src="http://www.hometown.aol.com/furyanix/lgboxsig.gif" style="border:0;"/></a></div>

Kuralyov · Post by **Kuralyov** » Sat Feb 11, 2006 10:56 pm

Steampunk. 
 
And space dragons are hardly anything new to SF...

<div style="text-align:center">Kuralyov, long-lost prodigal 
<a href="mailto:redmenace42@yahoo.com"> redmenace42@yahoo.com</a> 
AIM: Clan MacGuimont | ICQ: 247557148 | MSN: kuralyov | YIM: redmenace42 
Have you seen March of the Penguins yet? 
</div>

Bill3000 · Post by **Bill3000** » Sat Feb 11, 2006 11:50 pm

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>How do you go about putting Shireroth's fantasy elements into a futuristic scenario? Space dragons anyone? Or, another example. How do you balance Gotzborg's turn-of-the-century technological setting against that of a micronation with modern technology, like Antica?<hr></blockquote> 
 
Quite easy. Menelmacar was similar - it had fantasy while at the same time had sci-fi elements. It's what made Control of Destiny 3. (Indeed, space travel is in Control of Destiny 3) As well, despite being fantasy, Shireroth is a modern micronation when it comes to technology. 
 
Considering the fact that fictionally, nations had abandoned space technology, I'd say that's a larger problem than accomodating the themes of various micronations to allow for space travel. 
 
As well, I agree that there should not be colonization for now. Said fictional habitable planet would be there for purposes of simply having another habitable planet, not for colonization.

<center>Bill Dusch - Archon of Soloralism - Founder of <a href="http://p104.ezboard.com/bnationofteliko ... /a> 
Citizen of Shireroth Baron of Antya 
Proud to be Apollonian 
<script language="Javascript">
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</script>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p100.ezboard.com/bmicronationaln ... ill3000</A> at: 12/2/06 5:16

Nathan of Natopia · Post by **Nathan of Natopia** » Sun Feb 12, 2006 4:32 am

*pops up* Space dragons? 
 
yessssssss. (been my aim s/n for almost 8 years now) <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/smokin.gif ALT=":smokin">

His Sovereign Majesty, Nathan 
Sovereign Natopian Emperor 
 
<a href="http://natopia.cjb.net">Natopia</a> 
<a href="http://chancellornate.proboards20.com">Forums</a> 
 
Join the Renaissance! <a href="http://chancellornate.proboards20.com/i ... ry">Empire Library</a>

drspangle13 · Post by **drspangle13** » Sun Feb 12, 2006 7:15 am

I think that another planet would be confusing as you would have to look though 2 maps instead of one, and, it would take twice as long to update everything, also new micronatiuons will see this new planet and think "oh wow it hasn't got anyone on it we can claim massive areas of land with barely any citizens"

johndarcyofanthelia · Sun Feb 12, 2006 11:03 pm

I have skipped over all the mathematics in Bill's original post - impressive as they are - because something at the very beginning caught my eye. 
 
Is the Habitable Zone truly what Bill says, ie, <blockquote>Quote:<hr>it is the spherical shell surrounding a star in which a planet must reside in to have liquid water<hr></blockquote> 
I put it to you that the propensity of a planet to have liquid water is dependent on more than the radius of its orbit relative to the luminosity of its star. For example, if Mars were in the Earth's current orbit then it would still have only one-third of Earth's gravitational pull and would ergo still be unable to hold a dense atmosphere and would ergo still not have surface liquid water. 
 
A converse set of circumstances would give us another habitable planet at the distance of Mars. If a planet at 200 million km from the Sun were a little larger than the Earth (gravity a little stronger), and provided the necessary gases were available, then it would hold down a dense atmosphere which although cold would still allow liquid water to stand on the surface. 
 
So, in order to have another habitable planet in the Atos system, there is no need for Atos to be brighter. The second habitable planet need only be large enough to hold down a dense atmosphere, with perhaps some other special characteristics to ensure a viable climate (eg, different axial tilt would affect the climate of the tropics and the polar regions; more or less ocean would affect the weather systems; perhaps more internal heat to compensate for the reduced insolation). 
 
On the other hand, I don't see how a second habitable planet could be of any use to micronations which are not yet at mid-21st Century levels of space technology.

Cheers 
 
John Darcy 
Executive Councillor 
Minister for Finance, Economy and Business 
Minister for Immigration 
<a href="http://anthelia.net">Republic of Anthelia</a>

Shyriath · Post by **Shyriath** » Mon Feb 13, 2006 4:36 am

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>For example, if Mars were in the Earth's current orbit then it would still have only one-third of Earth's gravitational pull and would ergo still be unable to hold a dense atmosphere and would ergo still not have surface liquid water.<hr></blockquote> 
 
I would imagine that Mars is quite capable of holding down a much denser atmosphere than it currently does. One-third G is quite low by our standards, but is more than twice the surface gravity of Titan, whose atmosphere is much more dense. Much of the carbon dioxide that COULD be in the Martian atmosphere is frozen out onto the ice caps on a seasonal basis, and so the distinctive sparseness of the atmosphere seems more likely to be due to temperature... something very likely to change more in favor of the CO2 returning to the atmosphere, were Mars to be moved into a closer orbit around the sun. 
 
None of which, of course, invalidates the point you were trying to make: distance from the sun is certainly not the only factor one needs to consider when determining if a planet will be habitable. Still, it is a major factor.

<img src="http://spicychickengod.net/images/mysig.JPG" style="border:0;"/>

Bill3000 · Post by **Bill3000** » Mon Feb 13, 2006 2:32 pm

<blockquote>Quote:<hr> 
I put it to you that the propensity of a planet to have liquid water is dependent on more than the radius of its orbit relative to the luminosity of its star. For example, if Mars were in the Earth's current orbit then it would still have only one-third of Earth's gravitational pull and would ergo still be unable to hold a dense atmosphere and would ergo still not have surface liquid water.<hr></blockquote> 
 
I know that the factors regarding the habitability of a planet is tremendous. However, there are other factors than just merely the mass of the planet, as Shyriath had said. The most significant is the fact that Mars does not have a significant magnetic field, not the mass of Mars: 
 
<blockquote>Quote:<hr>Observations made in the late 1990's by the Mars Global Surveyor confirmed the suspicion that Mars, unlike Earth, no longer possessed a substantial global magnetic field, thus allowing potentially life-threatening cosmic radiation to reach the planet's surface. Scientists also speculate that the lack of shielding due to Mars' diminished global magnetic field helped the solar wind blow away much of Mars' atmosphere over the course of several billion years.<hr></blockquote> (Wikipedia) 
 
(Let's not forget that there is indisputable evidence that Mars was a wet planet in the past) 
 
While it is not the only factor by any means, let's try to remember that at least in the case for Micras, its atmosphere and other properties are quite like Earth's. (A little more massive, but not noticable, but we can assume that it has the same atmosphere, if not slightly thicker) The most relevant part of these equations is the location of Micras assuming that it has the same properties of Earth - in this case, the only major relevant part of the equation is the luminosity of the star. If the planet has the same albedo, same greenhouse effect as a result of its atmosphere, roughly the same mass and the like, the major factor by far for comparision would be luminosity. Perhaps the magnetic field would be needed to be slightly stronger due to the strengthening of the solar winds by a stronger sun, but other than that, I don't see any major factors for Micras. 
 
Another habitable planet, while not relevant, is relevant to the Micronational Astronomy Society, as well as myself and Ryan for cultural purposes. A planet need not be colonized in order to be relevant to Micras Astronomy.

<center>Bill Dusch - Archon of Soloralism - Founder of <a href="http://p104.ezboard.com/bnationofteliko ... /a> 
Citizen of Shireroth Baron of Antya 
Proud to be Apollonian 
<script language="Javascript">
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</script>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p100.ezboard.com/bmicronationaln ... ill3000</A> at: 13/2/06 19:34

johndarcyofanthelia · Post by **johndarcyofanthelia** » Mon Feb 13, 2006 8:35 pm

Indeed, Bill, the absence of a magnetosphere is detrimental for Mars' atmosphere - you are quite correct. Of course, I was postulating an earth-size planet in the position of Mars, not simply a bigger Mars ... but if Mars were bigger, then perhaps it would have retained an internal structure more alike to Earth? Perhaps not (cf Venus - no magnetic field, but an extremely dense atmosphere). 

Cheers 
 
John Darcy 
Executive Councillor 
Minister for Finance, Economy and Business 
Minister for Immigration 
<a href="http://anthelia.net">Republic of Anthelia</a>

Shyriath · Post by **Shyriath** » Tue Feb 14, 2006 2:00 am

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>but if Mars were bigger, then perhaps it would have retained an internal structure more alike to Earth? Perhaps not (cf Venus - no magnetic field, but an extremely dense atmosphere).<hr></blockquote> 
 
If I remember correctly, part of the mechanism involved in generating the magnetic field is the rotation of the planet... which, in the case of Venus, is extremely slow. So the internal structure as such might not be so different, so much as what's happening to it at the moment. 
 
Yet another case where one has to beware of other factors, I guess. <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/nerd.gif ALT="8o">

<img src="http://spicychickengod.net/images/mysig.JPG" style="border:0;"/>

pardek · Post by **pardek** » Fri Apr 07, 2006 3:19 pm

Different levels of technology are evident in rl so having it in the Micras sector wouldnt be that far fetched

darcyj · Post by **darcyj** » Fri Apr 07, 2006 8:12 pm

pardek wrote:Different levels of technology are evident in rl so having it in the Micras sector wouldnt be that far fetched

Different levels of technology are evident in the real world because some nations can afford a space program and MRI machines and rhinoplasty, and some nations cannot afford a handful of corn to feed the masses. It's not that Burkina Faso has never heard of rockets and MP3 players ...

However, in the Micras sector, it would be accurate to say that Gotzborg does not have space travel because the technology is unknown, not unobtainable. Gotzborg's style is pre-WWI, before the atom had been split and before mass production ... how can Gotzborg fit into any space colonisation scenario?

pardek · Post by **pardek** » Tue Apr 18, 2006 12:49 pm

there could a scenario be where they maintain that style and wished to not participate

Micronational Cartography Society

Atos, Micras, and the Habitable Zone

Atos, Micras, and the Habitable Zone

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